Curse

john little · Jul 03, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

E/Mo's set up for healing only is also a very, very bad idea due to the fact that you're not getting the benefit from divine favor.

in most circumstances, yes i'd agree. But if there aren't any monks around and you really don't want to have to wait 20mins for a (usually smiting) monk to appear, a E/Mo can more than hold their own. While divine healing is a big negative to a healing E/Mo the extra energy (and increased regen) goes quite a way to making up for it*. The elemental armour also means you are not targeted as much as a monk by NPC's (or players in PvP), and the more expensive heals like heal party are much more viable with such an energy reserve.

Aura of Restoration with a high value in energy storage also means you'll need fewer self heals than an equivalent monk, and so can carry more 'target other ally' heals.

The difference between a E/Mo set up for farming and a decent healing build is only a couple of AP, and the effectiveness is pretty good.

*obviously using mending negates the regen advantage, but that in itself confers benefits.

Eonwe · Jul 03, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by john little

in most circumstances, yes i'd agree. But if there aren't any monks around and you really don't want to have to wait 20mins for a (usually smiting) monk to appear, a E/Mo can more than hold their own. While divine healing is a big negative to a healing E/Mo the extra energy (and increased regen) goes quite a way to making up for it*. The elemental armour also means you are not targeted as much as a monk by NPC's (or players in PvP), and the more expensive heals like heal party are much more viable with such an energy reserve.

Aura of Restoration with a high value in energy storage also means you'll need fewer self heals than an equivalent monk, and so can carry more 'target other ally' heals.

The difference between a E/Mo set up for farming and a decent healing build is only a couple of AP, and the effectiveness is pretty good.

*obviously using mending negates the regen advantage, but that in itself confers benefits.

Monks and elementalists have the same amount of base energy regeneration (4 pips).

I guess if you're really, really tired of waiting, and have the attribute refunds to do it it may be worth it. Oh yea, btw, heal party is bad. The amount it heals for and the energy cost make it a skill you want to stay away from =\ .

john little · Jul 03, 2005, 04:18 PM // 16:18

they do? *goes off grumbling about useless monks that can't afford using up one pip of regen casting piddly little spells like orison when i'm casting my ass of with stuff like meteor shower*

rotor · Jul 03, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Hmmm ... 1 pip of regen is important when you consider you have about ~40-50 energy (at level 20) and have to heal 4-7 chars. Or some monks pants take away 1 pip so some monks might allready have 3 pips instead of 4.

dansamy · Jul 03, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I have gone specced out for healing as an El/Mo many times. Usually, the party's monk primary ends up standing around scratching their @$$ waiting on their energy to regen while I'm still spamming out heals with my pool of 80+ energy. Sometimes, if we're lucky, we might have a necro who knows how to use his skills and send some energy the casters' way. Usually not. In some of the later areas where you need a couple of monks and Mhenlo and Lina just aint cutting it, try out an El/Mo. No she doesn't have the advantage of DF, but she'll sure help out.

Kishin · Jul 03, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

There are better things to do with your energy than Mending. As Eonwe put it, 1 pip of energy regen is not a fair trade for it, and if you're a Monk and planning on running long term enchantments on folks, at least cast a better one than that, or conserve your regen for healing.

As for War/Mos, most of them would probably get a lot more mileage out of investing in Smiting Prayers and maintaining Strength of Honor, rather than Mending.

Chev of Hardass · Jul 03, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Try running a Zealous Sword/Axe, Mending and Vigorous Spirit. It seems like I have less energy issuses with that setup than I do playing a non enchantment based build, and the combonation of those two skills will keep your health well into the good zone. The bleeding/poison buff is essencial in some ares of Tyria too. Then you have 4 skills left, after you install Restore Life and Mend Ailment (both are primary Warrior/Mo skills). I tend to bring Battle Rage for an Elite and one adrenaline based skill. The other two are Energy based attacks. I always have an attack ready and I tend to not die, with a minimal of healing help.

Balthatzars Spirit Would be great if everyone (MOBs included) didn't target the monks first.

Smiting is fine for a W/Mo in PvP, but in Pve a warrior is only there to soak damage and keep the MOBs from the healers. Healers depend on W/Mos to not need extensive heals, so keep that in mind.

Ohh, and don't bother with mending for a Monk primary, unless you have a Necro that asks for it, so they can sacrifice blood and give your monks energy with Blood Ritual, or BiP. As a Necro, Mending can mean the differance between keeping enchantments like Blood Ritual and Blood is Power up. And making a N/Mo makes no sense, since a Necro with 4 pips has problems with energy regen maintaining Blood RItual on two or more players.

BigTru · Jul 03, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Mending is bad even for Tanks to use on themselves. If you must have a maintained enchantment for healing, Live Vicariously is superior so long as you are atleast attacking every now and then and as long as you aren't blinded. Great for PvE. In PvP, I doubt both's usefulness.

Aziz · Jul 03, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

i fully agree with the IQ guy, mending is USELESS
but when you say that heal party is useless for its health/mana cost, my guild sometimes runs it to counter EoE/disease(if we dont have a drawbot healer or a tainted flesh necro)

Gilg Amesh · Jul 04, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

It all depends on your build guys. Just like everything else in this game its all on how you use it with the rest of your skill set. I'm a W/mo and I live by mending. I play with 105 hp, so mending becomes very effective at that health. Don't just immediately trash a skill just because it doesnt suit YOUR build. It suits mine just fine.

Aziz · Jul 04, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

and do you pvp with this build? a simple enchant removal and a few hits and your dead

Gilg Amesh · Jul 04, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Couple monks with spellbreaker should help there, no? But I was talking mostly PvE here and basically just saying that mending has its uses. Particularly when I try to farm some higher lvl mobs solo.

Jul 04, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

how about we stop being hypothetical and cut the bullshit. Mending is terrible. It's not efficient, and 6hp per sec isn't enough to stop any half assed effort to kill you.

Gilg Amesh · Jul 04, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

When any mob cant do more than 3 dmg per hit on me it is. And jeez, why so hostile, just giving my opinion.

Also not hypothetical, I solo the hydras outside ember camp pretty frequently. Quite fun!

Keure · Jul 04, 2005, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Well...you do advocate having monks burn their spellbreaker on a healing wa/mo to counter enchant removal. And you also make it sound like your very limited application of mending somehow makes it an OK skill despite its lack of utility and garbage efficiency in every other situation. I'm inclined to say that the hostility is warranted...

Gilg Amesh · Jul 04, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Clearly you did not read what I said. In my case(which is mostly PvE) its effective. In every other situation it may very well be ineffective, but this thread is supposed to be about the pros and cons right?I'm saying at very low health, protective spirit and mending make a great combo. My opinion. What works for me might not work for you but I'm just telling the OP that I use it, and it keeps me alive. Why people are so quick to put others down throughout this forum is getting tiring...

Van the Warrior · Jul 04, 2005, 01:52 AM // 01:52

for your first monk bring
Healing Touch/Orison
Heal Other
Heal Party
Healing Breeze
Healing Hands
Mend Condition
Rebirth
Quickening Zephyr

for your second monk bring
Healing Touch/Orison
Heal Other
Heal Party
Healing Breeze
Healing Hands
Mend condition
Rebirth
Energygizing Wind

one monk places 5 points in beast mastery for Energizing Wind the other will place 5 points into wilderness survival for Quickening Zephyr.

this is a good UW/FoW tool if u are in a bind and need to HEAVILY spam heals

Skill Descriptions
Energizing Wind - Nature Ritual
Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all skills cost 15 energy less (minimum cost 10 energy) and skills recharge 25% slower than normal. This Spirit dies after 30-126 seconds.

Quickening Zephyr - Nature Ritual
Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all skills recharge twice as fast as normal and require 30% more energy to cast. This Spirit dies after 30-126 seconds.

the scheme is lay down these 2 spirits as fast as possible have your warriors do their thing (walls lure etc) as they do their thing you have free run to spam healing without energy pinging every 10 seconds to let ur team know that ur hurting for juice by the time your spirit dies u would have been able to throw another one up and seeing as these only cost 5 energy its not a big deal i found this very helpfull and if ya dont like my choices of healing skills feel free to change em but keep the ranger skills if ya wanna try it out

if you are not sure about this and dont wanna waste 1 plat and such just go do some pve like mineral springs etc and try it out for yourselves

this will make your heal party cost 10 energy instead of 15, and having all your heals recharge 25% faster, so you spam them more, you can also spam Heal Other it costs 10 energy -10 from the spirits + 25% faster recharge = happy group wouldnt you say? also i recomend that you bring collectors 20/20 focus and a 20 rod, healing a must
now for your spells that cost 5 energy well that is healing touch and it is an emergency back up it will cost i think 7 energy to use but hey u wont need it your other monk buddy is there but you may never know

Red Locust · Jul 04, 2005, 02:47 AM // 02:47

PvE usually involves short bursts of massive damage followed by periods of rest as you move on to another group. It's better for you to be able to heal a lot of damage over a short time with a monk primary rather than spam lots of low-heal spells as an ele, cause they might not be enough to save someone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

First off I was talking about mending on a Wa/Mo, so it's impossible for him to have above 12 in healing.

About the silly build you posted. You have a "monk tank" casting mending and..... watchful spirit on himself, ok. Then you have a second monk casting protective bond and balth's spirit on the "monk tank". On top of that you have a third guy (a warrior?) casting retribution and holy wrath on the "monk tank."

I will explain to you why this will not work, and where you're wrong.

Depending on how much the monk casting prot bond has in protection, he will probably be losing 2-3 energy each time your "monk tank" gets hit. He is also already only running on 2 pips of energy regen, with no energy management. Once his energy reaches zero (and it will very quickly if that monk is indeed tanking), protective bond will end.

Another thing, forget about your warrior having ANY energy at all if he is casting holy wrath and retribution on the "monk tank". So the whole "dealing 99% of damage back to the enemies" will last for about the first 2-3 hits, that's it. Not to mention that you'll only be dealing 34 max dmg back when both holy wrath and retribution are up.

You also mentioned that the "monk tank" will be getting 3+ mana every time he gets hit? Wrong. He will be getting 1 mana every time he gets hits since he only has balth's spirit on him.

I guess the simple question is, where do you think you're getting all this energy from

?

First off, Holy Wrath does not end when the caster's energy hits 0, it keeps going. Considering warriors are capable of running solely on adrenaline, it's not too bad.

Second, if this "monk tank" is using a superior prot rune (which he should if he's going with protective bond) he'll be losing 2 energy per hit. Assuming he ditches watchful spirit (which he should) and uses essence bond on himself, he'll be gaining/losing a total of 0 energy when he gets hit by an attack, and 1 energy when getting hit by a spell. Throw in blessed signet, channeling, and RoF/Guardian spamming, and you got a tank that ain't getting killed with anything other than a mass disenchant (lingering curse, rend, profane, etc).

Don't diss the monk tank if you don't know what he's capable of

Eonwe · Jul 04, 2005, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

PvE usually involves short bursts of massive damage followed by periods of rest as you move on to another group. It's better for you to be able to heal a lot of damage over a short time with a monk primary rather than spam lots of low-heal spells as an ele, cause they might not be enough to save someone.

First off, Holy Wrath does not end when the caster's energy hits 0, it keeps going. Considering warriors are capable of running solely on adrenaline, it's not too bad.

Second, if this "monk tank" is using a superior prot rune (which he should if he's going with protective bond) he'll be losing 2 energy per hit. Assuming he ditches watchful spirit (which he should) and uses essence bond on himself, he'll be gaining/losing a total of 0 energy when he gets hit by an attack, and 1 energy when getting hit by a spell. Throw in blessed signet, channeling, and RoF/Guardian spamming, and you got a tank that ain't getting killed with anything other than a mass disenchant (lingering curse, rend, profane, etc).

Don't diss the monk tank if you don't know what he's capable of

He stated that a second monk, NOT the "monk tank" would be using protective bond.

You are correct about holy wrath though, my bad

.

I know what a prot bond/essence bond/balth's spirit build with 5 superiors runes and some smiting thrown in is capable of however, if that's what you were implying. But certainly not something extremely stupid like what was posted before.

Lampshade · Jul 04, 2005, 07:52 AM // 07:52

It only works sometimes for W/Mo.

Even then it still sucks cause you have to have all adrenal skills equpped cause you only have like 20 mana and 1 regen.